I disagree completely. For instance if VR was removed from all users tomorrow can you imagine the outcry? For a guy who has been so instrumental in the improvement of VR with your fantastic apps, I find your statement sad to say the least. Is there something else that`s influenced your decision?

... electronic based on the combination of the three core technologies. Digital Camera Lens Assemblies. >Products>Optical Lens Sets>Digital Camera Lens Assemblies.

So ok, I’ll rephrase my original statement. PCVR gaming has been on a death bed for a while now. It’s still there, you can still sort of use it, but it’s not going to really get any better or even meet the minimum bar to be truly enjoyable to it’s initial potential.

I’ll start off on the issue of quad views dynamic foveated rendering, as is possible in DCS. This feature dramatically decreases the GPU workload and so greatly increases frame rates. I believe this approach has been mentioned as being in the pipeline for MSFS 2024.

Semi-enjoying because many just spend a large fraction of their time dealing with configuring, troubleshooting, optimizing the half-baked experience that they are given out-of-the-box.

See above. “Casual VR” is “mobile VR”. No room for PC in casual. I have no doubt mobile VR will be fine, this is the only scenario currently being invested in, with 0 investment in PCVR, one exception being Pimax, and while I love them, their $1500 headsets aren’t going to save us.

2020518 — Tatsächlich kannst du die Schärfentiefe berechnen. Dazu musst du allerdings einige physikalische Hintergründe und ein paar Fachbegriffe sowie ...

Indeed, if PC VR was “dead” then why would Meta release a new headset? Why would Pico release a new headset? Why would Vive release a new headset? The list goes on for new headset releases this year not to mention those listed above as very recent, the evidence of millions of players currently enjoying PC VR is there for all to see.

The key thing to not forget is that before considering quad views, the game engine must implement stereo instanced rendering. That wasn’t the case in MSFS 2020. Without this, you are just going to double your CPU utilization and negate any possible gain quad views could have offered. This is already quite an issue with DCS for folks with weaker CPUs or doing heavy multiplayer sessions. But DCS is also not nearly as CPU-intense as MSFS is when it comes to geometry submission.

All these new headsets are optimized for mobile applications. Meta hasn’t really updated Quest Link with improvements in forever, and almost every time they’ve released updates, they broke tons of stuff. Quest Link is literally a development kit for Quest standalone (Android) apps. Many of the advanced features such as eye tracking, body tracking are only available in Developer mode (since again - this is just a devkit for standalone apps). Let’s talk about Pico and Vive since you mentioned them. Well nevermind, the story is exactly the same, their PCVR runtimes are bare minimum and are missing any new features. They don’t even offer basics like hand tracking on PC, unless you use 3rd party apps like ALVR. Pretty sure the last HTC Elite XR was a massive flop for PC users, so I’m not really sure why it was worth a mention.

The focal length of a lens determines its magnifying power, which is the apparent size of your subject as projected onto the focal plane where your image sensor ...

Let’s not forget about platform developers. This is the bit you might have less exposure to. They are no different from the game developers above. Doesn’t really matter if you report bugs, if it’s directed at their PC runtime, it goes to the bottom of the pile. Loved a great example recently when there was a Twitter post from a game dev, calling out a bunch of serious bugs in SteamVR OpenXR. Funnily, the 1st bug cited was one I had reported directly to the SteamVR lead developer, 2 years prior… I have dozens of stories like that.

PS: “Yes I’m well aware of your past and unfortunate ending in your role”, not really sure what you are implying. I left my role of my own will 6 months ago.

PS: “Yes I’m well aware of your past and unfortunate ending in your role”, not really sure what you are implying. I left my role of my own will 6 months ago.

Implementing stereo instanced rendering would benefit all VR users (irrelevant of quad views). Probably a 50-100% CPU gain (that’s reducing CPU utilization by one quarter or one half). This is what engines like Unity and Unreal do.

20231123 — Paolo Maldini has 'crept into conversations' for Man Utd sporting director role. Manchester United. 4. By Matt Smith. Published Nov 23, 2023.

Then in the last Dev Stream this week the answer was that VR performance will remain roughly the same as it is now in v2020.

Yes I can imagine. Same outcry than we’ve been seeing for years now about how VR doesn’t work well in the game. Same sort of outcry when Meta mandated Facebook accounts or removed the DP cable. Same sort of outcry that we’ve seen when WMR was said to become EOL.

While I know there have been some threads here concerning various aspects of VR in MSFS 2024, I think it would be worthwhile to have a dedicated thread to the topic that covers an overall approach to VR in the sim. As VR in general and newer more capable headsets gain increasing popularity for the immersion they bring, having a single go-to thread seems worthwhile and also a point where the devs can focus on to get feedback, rather than it being lost in in the clutter.

Scopri i nostri obiettivi macro consigliati, selezionati per la loro eccezionale nitidezza da vicino, precisione e capacità di ingrandimento.

Primary types · Single-lens reflex (SLR) camera · Large-format camera · Plate camera · Medium-format camera · Twin-lens reflex camera · Compact cameras · Instant ...

As to VR performance being similar on release as Baracus250 mentions, if there are any appreciable visual gains on release, with less stuttering, that would at least be something to look forward to.

The most optimal implementation would be to attempt quad views with a single geometry submission (what we could coin as “quad instanced rendering”), aka getting most of the gains from 1) without the drawbacks from 2) - I am not sure this has been done before though.

You may not like it, but there’s still a growing number of VR gamers. That being said, there’s always room for improvement, of course. I used to think Elite Dangerous was amazing, (back in the days) even though it was just a few lines on the screen. Look where we are now. If you ask me, VR is here to stay.

You only need to take a look in the U.K where the Govt is talking about “not letting youngsters have Smartphones” because of all the problems that they can cause. Smartphones can be good but in the wrong hands it can turn really bad really fast. The same unfortunately goes for a lot of things and VR is no different.

Focal length refers to the distance from the lens to the image sensor (CMOS sensor) when the picture is in focus. The focal length is listed on most lenses.

Ogni bottiglia di birra passa attraverso un sensore di ispezione che attiva un sistema di visione con luce stroboscopica e acquisisce un'immagine della.

Stacking quad views rendering on top of two stereo instanced rendering passes now becomes relatively trivial to implement and would somewhat offset the gains above (eg: reduce CPU to 50%, but then do that processing twice, so we’re back to 100%). This is what Unreal does when using quad views, and this is how you get insane performance gains with quad views in apps like Pavlov VR (I’m speaking of 2-3x improvements). Free GPU gains at no CPU cost.

Having read this topic it makes me very sad indeed. Always had the hope that PCVR was only going to get better over time especially for us Flight Simmers. I can totally understand @mbucchia’s points and I for one think he’s right. At the end of the day it’s all about profit, and time and time again it’s been proved that these BIG companies only care about profit. The fact that VRChat has so many users (I’m not one of them! and never will be!) speaks for itself. There’s far to many evil greedy people in the world and that equals BIG profits for these companies. While the small community of VR Flight Simmers that just want to have a clean enjoyable experience, that doesn’t hurt anyone, simply can’t generate the BIG profits that these companies need!

Let’s see how this goes, as there are numerous wishes and, as the release date approaches with more info coming out, we VR users can raise all sorts of hopes and suggestions in one place.

And the cherry on top of the cake is Meta’s current direction with their middleware, where they are effectively destroying the cross-platform developer ecosystem by adding checks directly inside applications to ensure that they will only run on their platform. I just want you to pause here, and read that sentence above again. Because I’m not sure at first read you understand the implications. The leader in number of market units is adding soft-lock so that PC applications will only run on their headset, and that isn’t just apps from their 1st party studios, they are doing this for 3rd party apps as well. Funnily, I developed several hacks to bypass the checks and get those apps to work on other headsets, proving undeniably that there are no technical limitations, just Meta sabotaging the industry for whatever reason. Meanwhile, everyone praising them for their “innovation” (aka same headset, cheaper), and supporting them financially to continue spreading their “computer virus” (good analogy for that middleware that locks other vendors out of the party).

Meanwhile, all the other vendors are walking away from the industry, because there is absolutely no way to generate revenue and survive when selling a PCVR gaming headset at reasonable price. Microsoft, Varjo are the two biggest examples, but back to the other vendors above, you can see they re-purposed to mobile VR. You are citing the millions of PC users, which in fact is a very small number when you look at the tens of millions of mobile VR users. With an entry point at >$1500 for a display-wired PC headset (aka something undoubtedly built for PCVR), it’s not too surprising.

Las lentes macro están diseñadas para ofrecer una gran relación de ampliación máxima. Por ejemplo, una lente con una ampliación máxima de 0,25 x presenta ...

Let’s not forget about platform developers. This is the bit you might have less exposure to. They are no different from the game developers above. Doesn’t really matter if you report bugs, if it’s directed at their PC runtime, it goes to the bottom of the pile. Loved a great example recently when there was a Twitter post from a game dev, calling out a bunch of serious bugs in SteamVR OpenXR. Funnily, the 1st bug cited was one I had reported directly to the SteamVR lead developer, 2 years prior… I have dozens of stories like that.

Meanwhile, all the other vendors are walking away from the industry, because there is absolutely no way to generate revenue and survive when selling a PCVR gaming headset at reasonable price. Microsoft, Varjo are the two biggest examples, but back to the other vendors above, you can see they re-purposed to mobile VR. You are citing the millions of PC users, which in fact is a very small number when you look at the tens of millions of mobile VR users. With an entry point at >$1500 for a display-wired PC headset (aka something undoubtedly built for PCVR), it’s not too surprising.

Semi-enjoying because many just spend a large fraction of their time dealing with configuring, troubleshooting, optimizing the half-baked experience that they are given out-of-the-box.

All these new headsets are optimized for mobile applications. Meta hasn’t really updated Quest Link with improvements in forever, and almost every time they’ve released updates, they broke tons of stuff. Quest Link is literally a development kit for Quest standalone (Android) apps. Many of the advanced features such as eye tracking, body tracking are only available in Developer mode (since again - this is just a devkit for standalone apps). Let’s talk about Pico and Vive since you mentioned them. Well nevermind, the story is exactly the same, their PCVR runtimes are bare minimum and are missing any new features. They don’t even offer basics like hand tracking on PC, unless you use 3rd party apps like ALVR. Pretty sure the last HTC Elite XR was a massive flop for PC users, so I’m not really sure why it was worth a mention.

I’m certainly no expert on the programming side of things. But I’m fairly certain I heard Jorg state that quad views was in the pipeline for MSFS 2024; maybe he just meant it was being explored. I wonder, is it technically feasible that the new engine, which will offload CPU workloads to all cores, could make a difference to any increase in CPU load implementing quad views?

These PCVR users are basically playing a handful of games total really, with the top “game” by usage being VRChat, an application where full grown adults can play dress up as anime characters and walk around throwing tantrums. One of the most toxic user community I have encountered. For the ones not playing VRChat, they are semi-enjoying a very small set of games (typically less than a handful) where VR support has always been an after-thought, with very few if no updates. I think if we take the example if MSFS, when did VR receive any significant new improvements? I think that was DLSS in SU10, so around 2 years ago. This is the same story for nearly all VR game developers on PC. Since this thread mentions DCS, go take a look at the DCS forums for critical bug reports that were made 2+ years ago, and still not addressed by the developer.

I have no actual issue with Quest hardware. The way they are sabotaging developers and the PC ecosystem, that’s a different story.

I get that PCVR is not exactly big business, but why are you leaving the space completely? Do you not believe that “casual” VR/AR will go mainstream at some point and become huge, like Meta is betting on heavily?

And the cherry on top of the cake is Meta’s current direction with their middleware, where they are effectively destroying the cross-platform developer ecosystem by adding checks directly inside applications to ensure that they will only run on their platform. I just want you to pause here, and read that sentence above again. Because I’m not sure at first read you understand the implications. The leader in number of market units is adding soft-lock so that PC applications will only run on their headset, and that isn’t just apps from their 1st party studios, they are doing this for 3rd party apps as well. Funnily, I developed several hacks to bypass the checks and get those apps to work on other headsets, proving undeniably that there are no technical limitations, just Meta sabotaging the industry for whatever reason. Meanwhile, everyone praising them for their “innovation” (aka same headset, cheaper), and supporting them financially to continue spreading their “computer virus” (good analogy for that middleware that locks other vendors out of the party).

These PCVR users are basically playing a handful of games total really, with the top “game” by usage being VRChat, an application where full grown adults can play dress up as anime characters and walk around throwing tantrums. One of the most toxic user community I have encountered. For the ones not playing VRChat, they are semi-enjoying a very small set of games (typically less than a handful) where VR support has always been an after-thought, with very few if no updates. I think if we take the example if MSFS, when did VR receive any significant new improvements? I think that was DLSS in SU10, so around 2 years ago. This is the same story for nearly all VR game developers on PC. Since this thread mentions DCS, go take a look at the DCS forums for critical bug reports that were made 2+ years ago, and still not addressed by the developer.

I’m pretty confused by the statements from Jorg and Asobo. I don’t have the time to find the exact references to link here now but I remember in a video from FS Expo a few months ago the VR topic came up and Jorg said they have all been flying it in the studio and the improvements are amazing.

We use cookies to improve your browsing experience and help us improve our websites. By continuing to use our website, you agree to our use of such cookies.  Agree  Learn more

Well, with openxr and quad view foveated rendering in my case integrated in the latest Pimax beta driver ill be quite satisfied if the performance im getting now is the same in ms 24. It should be as the architecture in 24 is improved greatly according to the reviewer reports i`m seeing.

Either of the examples above, the outcry led nowhere really. It was a grain of sand in the ocean where big ships captains do not really care (and I know because I’ve been their mate and saw it first hand).

Description. For use with 12″,18″,24″,60″ stems (sold separately) Compatible with Alliance Bluetooth Stems. Diameter: 6.75. Height: 2. Lens Height: 2.75

I won’t derail the topic. I am glad you have hope. Having worked as a professional in this industry, every weekday, many weekends, poured a lot of blood and sweat, sometimes 15+ hours a day, for close to 6 years, I stand by my statement.

Exactly my thoughts. It’s just a way of experiencing games, whether in pancake mode or in VR. Both have their con’s and pros.

So ok, I’ll rephrase my original statement. PCVR gaming has been on a death bed for a while now. It’s still there, you can still sort of use it, but it’s not going to really get any better or even meet the minimum bar to be truly enjoyable to it’s initial potential.

As to PCVR being dead, I suspect that it’s value to commercial usage, including flight training, military usage etc, would at least give hope that it’s not only here to stay but also grow, whether wired or wireless.

What is enjoyable varies for everyone, of course. The Quest 3 may be a stand-alone headset, but it works perfectly for me. I only play PCVR games, and I enjoy it despite the GFX not being optimal. If I want perfect graphics, I can play in pancake mode. For me, immersion is much more important than crystal-clear visuals.

Yes I’m well aware of your past and unfortunate ending in your role, however to say it is “dead” is massively incorrect, I respect your opinion on other matters but this I simply cannot agree with it