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Both bullet and brass take some damage in firing, particularly the projectile – and guns are close enough to the same that any decent defence lawyer could find another that a state forensics guy couldn’t tell from the one in evidence. Precision is the name of the game here. Which means, heck, they’re all alike these days.

Oh, and I love that one of the reasons that the NRA cites taggants as being bad is that the taggant industry doesn’t accept liability from them damaging guns. Firstly, duh, the taggant industry has no control of whether or not it’s put in gunpowder correctly, or how well the gunpowder works afterwards, that would be akin to a wire manufacturer accepting liability because bare wires in your new house shocked you. Yeah, that’s not really their fault.

@George William Herbert The black powder and gunpowder taggants alter the burn behavior of the propellant. You can say “well, fine, just modify the amount of powder then” but cartridges are finely balanced, carefully adjusted mechanisms which assume powder behavior that’s been standardized for decades. The results of mistakes or changes which aren’t properly calibrated are explosions and injuries to users, most of whom will be innocent target shooters and police officers training.

These devices are manufactured on a production line which means that their design will have been to reduce the cost of manufacture. Which in all probabilty means the mechanics have “slop” which in turn means the “anti-tamper” features are probably not that wonderful.

Incidentally, due to imperfections in the hammers, these marks already exists and can be matched if you have the casing and the gun, just like the imperfections in the barrel leaves marks on the bullet that can be matched…but the premise here is to register them in advance. Now, registering-in-advance could be done with the existing random marks, but that requires firing the gun and recording them, whereas if it’s a serial number stamped on the casing you don’t have to bother with that, you can just look up who owns a certain gun. (And before anyone suggests faking someone else’s serial number, of course the police would actually match the still-existing imperfections, both on the bullet and casing, if this needed to be introduced as evidence.)

Criminals are, erm, criminal – they don’t follow the laws. They are savvy enough to buy a perfectly legal file if needed. Or an older gun, there are plenty out there.

Felon is a citizen standing up for their rights. Gotta kill that. Fellas: it’s a war, the police are class defenders and you are not on their LIKE list. So draw your conclusions, take names (and share!) and kick ass yourselves.

@SchneieronSecurityFan: You could also just claim to do it (and have a large public debate on it). That would probably lead to more home-cooking, which in turn at least weeds out the more stupid/inept/reckless criminals. (Ché claimed that about half of the people who try will blow themselves up in the first month, and the rest has learned proper caution and handling techniques by then and should be considered safe).

Really, if you want to use gun control to reduce crime, nothing short of an outright ban (at the very least on Handguns) is likely to have much of an effect. We would be far better off if we tried to fix our social issues, but I don’t see that one happening any time soon. I’m in that small category of people who don’t support laws requiring firearm registration, “assault-weapons” bans, gun purchase limits, or wait period for purchases (except for maybe your first purchase), but do support handgun bans (although that would be unecessary if we solved our social problems).

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However, as I am sure you are aware, there is too much money involved on the Law Enforcement side of the equation. The War on Drugs is a big business and like most big businesses, they have plenty of lobbying power. Plus, “think of the children”.

No, not a good idea. Really. Figuring out new safe loads for new tagged powders would take a decade and billions and would likely kill more people in accidents than it would solve in murders.

There’s a good chance most rounds fired by civilians in the U.S. (the bullet is only the projectile, if a bullet is the style of projectile being used) are actually hand loaded by folks in the basement — much cheaper and you’re able to tune your ammunition to your firearms and conditions for maximum accuracy.

1) Which incidentally means the idea someone suggested, of only using stolen Tasers, a bit silly. Yes, if you wanted to steal a new Taser for every crime you committed, you could do that. Otherwise, no.

So kids, just make sure you use someone else’s taser cartridge or buy one on the black market — that’ll fix that “security” feature.

Based on what is required to modify a replic gun to become one that will fire live rounds, and criminals do the conversion and sell them to other criminals… It begs the question of a “new market” in ID tag less devices opening on the priciple of “demand begets supply”.

And if cost is the argument, it needs to be made honestly, not with nonsense about companies that change formulations of powder all the time, and put stuff in them all the time, suddenly and forever being able to do that with a certain thing.

ProCrimeTip #2: Always take your battery-operated “Dust Buster” with you so you can vacuum up all the AFID tags after you commit the crime.

Except that’s not the reason we don’t have taggants in that stuff. That’s the modern excuse, but was not the reason when they actually were shot down, which was entirely different nonsense about environmental concerns and other random dumbness.

The constitution doesn’t say anything about (in alphabetical order): abortion, automobiles, aviation, computers, cryptography software, e-mail, gay sex, general purpose computing, heterosexual sex, the internet, radios, telephones, televisions, etc.

These kind of crimes of data theft and ID fixation happen everyday attacks on Banks and retailers and account management system are cracked quite frequently by session fixation. What worse is that when the theft of credit cards has occurred, the affected company gets away with offering a year of credit monitoring when they should be offering a lifetime of credit monitoring. The consequence of a stolen credit card is that you call your Bank and your not liable for any transactions. The consequence for theft of your tagged bullets would be hundreds of thousands individually in lawyers and investigators to prove you didn’t murder some one and that you’ve been framed. Good luck with that!

But on the plus side, law enforcement would be able to make arrests more often with more reliable evidence than shoe leather detective work, we wouldn’t want them to have to do a proper investigations as long as some one whos probably bad goes to jail, it would just more effort than we should expect of our law enforcers. Heck we could even get the NSA and FBI to corroborate that the evidence is as good as DNA.

In case you’re not joking, the confetti is ejected from the same cartridge and along the same axis as the probes and their wires are propelled.

It seems like national security and crime are very similar in this respect: if we put our efforts into solving social issues, both domestic and foreign, as opposed to covert ops, creating dozens of law enforcement agencies, military posturing, etc. then we would probably be a lot safer with a lot less crime. Unfortunatley, solving social issues is harder to profit off of; if your donors are defense contractors, you aren’t going to work to make a world that doesn’t require such a large military.

This is a bad idea waiting to happen, lets not let it be so and pleeease think before you jump into new tech. Think before you type and try not to type while emotional or drunk or exhausted or hungry. Get some rest If this still seems like a good idea to micro-tag, I could recommend a set of community college courses starting with forensics, investigation, logic and critical thinking (especially being critical about your own thinking) after that if you still feel the same way about it, I’d recommend that you may need to give up your keyboards, retire from computing or publishing and get immediately into a field where your less likely to end up selling out your own family for security theater.

When was the last time an actual crime was committed with a black powder weapon? Haven’t heard in the news about any at all, despite the gun-locks Massachusetts seems to think are needed on old muskets in museums.

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And the same issue with the ‘but they might just use stolen guns’ argument. Even if all gun crime was with stolen guns, if this system was in place, you could link a gun stolen from a certain place with a different crime, which gives you much higher chance of figuring out the intersection of possibilities of the two crimes, and even if the gun has been transferred a few times, the possibility of working forwards to the other crime. Without a microstamp, you have no idea what gun it even is that committed the crime.

Not that I have much hope, but perhaps this framework will help people think about new regulations a bit more rigorously.

Reminds me of a short story by P.K. Dick about a robot that frames someone for murder by attaching samples of their hair, clothes, and saliva to the crime scene. Technology has progressed a lot since the early ’60s: what makes you think such frame-ups aren’t already taking place?

More for rifle rounds where you can’t use the brass as many times, need more powder, and you have to use jacketed bullets @ around 20c each for the good stuff, a nickel for the cheapo. But dirt cheap army surplus…traceable to…the army.

But, more importantly, it is completely hilarious for the NRA to complain about industries not ‘accepting liability for their products’.

The Constitution says nothing about the internet, does freedom of the press not apply? Or does it apply but the Government could impose onerous and overwhelming fees to discourage the use of the internet for free speech?

The reason for these features is to protect law enforcement users against brutality claims by providing independent evidence of the actual use made of the device. There’s even a form on Taser.com for requesting expert assistance in analysis of this information.

@Autolykos:”Doing nothing is always the option against which all others need to be measured first.” Good point! You should always have base line to compare to.

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